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Kevin McKinney

"And by opposing end them" sounds good. Of course, poor old Hamlet ended up dead trying, but maybe this isn't quite that kind of tragedy.

We can hope, at least--and keep on trying for that elusive balance that comprises being "a voice of sanity."

M

There are two things working here:

1) To the extent that in reality, climate sensitivity and the consequences of temperature rise are as bad or worse than our best estimates, we would prefer to see the impacts sooner than later to give us the right signals to mitigate: aerosol or natural variability "masking" of the problem may delay mitigation and cause things to be much worse in the future, even as it means that some impacts wouldn't be as bad in the near-term. Conversely, to the extent that less impact today indicates that there will be less impact in the future, we'd prefer to have less impact today.

2) To the extent that we're human and want to be proved right and the stupid naysayers to be proved wrong, a climate disaster that is bad but not catastrophic would (unfortunately) provide some schadenfreude... if schadenfreude covered pleasure from watching disaster hit oneself as well as others...

Heraclitus

I've been following this site since its inception (OK, not such a startling claim given that it's been all of, what, a week now?) and really like what you're doing. Not just a great place to catch up on all the sea-ice news, it's the tone of your comments that will keep me coming back. You've expressed exactly what I feel in this post - I find myself rooting for the ice to melt - a desperately needed wake up call - at the same time as dreading the consequences.

Great work - I look forward to much more of it.

Lou Grinzo

Two observations:

If someone isn't alarmed during genuinely alarming times, then clearly s/he isn't paying attention or is crazy.

The warming Up North is extremely troubling to me because [1] it's already happening, [2] the potential for lighting the fuse on the permafrost bomb and kicking the whole process into overdrive, and [3] while melting sea ice doesn't add to sea levels, there's one heck of a lot of ice sitting on top of Greenland that hasn't melted for thousands of years, and we're seeing it on the move and disappearing to the tune of roughly 300 billion metric tons (net loss) per year. That's 300 cubic kilometers of ice.


David Gould

It is indeed a dilemma. I have a bet with Willis re the collapse of ice extent. While I want to win, I also hope I lose. There are very mixed feelings there ...

Patrick Lockerby

This is a very well written article. Kudos! I echo what Heraclitus has said, especially: " I find myself rooting for the ice to melt - a desperately needed wake up call - at the same time as dreading the consequences."

A complete loss of winter ice by about April-May would have dramatic knock-on effects. Many of Greenland's glaciers have been slowed by shorefast ice even throughout summer. With no shorefast ice I am confident they will accelerate. By how much is anybody's guess until surveys are made.

Neven

Thanks for the supportive comments! I really had to get this off my chest and am glad that some people recognize the feeling. I'm sure we'll discuss it some more if the ice melt gets spectacular this season.

John Thiessen

To understand what 300 km^3 means for sea level rise:

The area of the oceans are 335258000 km^2 (from google or whatnot). For each km^3 that melts, the oceans rise 1/335258000 km. To convert to meters, multiply by 1000. That still leaves a very small number. To make that number more comparable, multiply by 1000 again: 0.00298. In other words, for every 1000 km^3 of land ice that melts, the sea level rises .00298 meters or about 3 millimeters. So the current rate of sea level increase due to Greenland melt (approx. 300 km^3) is about 1 mm per year.

Does this sound right?

Neven

Hi John, I've copied your comment to Open Thread 4.

r w Langford

Neven; One mans alarmist is another mans realist. The "Real" issue, that the Club of Rome confronted, is overpopulation resulting in the carrying capacity of Gia being exceeded. The book "The world in 2050" by L Smith points out that if all people had the consumption rate of north americans it would equate to 72 billion people. What do you think the actual carrying capacity of the globe is? My guess is less than one billion. Arctic sea ice is a canary in the mine but is anyone minding the canary? Am I an alarmist, a realist or a spoiler as I was recently called. I am all three depending a persons individual bias.

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